So I’m going through my e-mails the other day, and simultaneously wondering what the future of exercise will be like.
Will the Functional Dark Side take over and rule the fitness universe with the traumatic forces of evil?
Or, will we be saved by somebody taking the ball, so to say, and inventing some machines with motorized resistance, similar to “The Motivator” that Joel Waldman described in his High Intensity Interview of the Month?
And then, all of a sudden, I came across this e-mail in my inbox–and I knew The Force was with the Nation.
The E-Mail:
Hi Dave,
I thoroughly enjoy your interviews and appreciate you taking the time to conduct them.
I just wanted to let you know that somebody has “taken the ball” so to say on inventing some machines with motorized resistance similar to the Motivator Joel described.
Check out some of our videos:
Take care,
Mark Alexander
WOW. Did you see that? (And, the guy repeated what I was thinking like word for word. Weird.)
I immediately e-mailed Mark back and said:
Hi Mark,
Glad you are enjoying the site, we are working on some really cool stuff for next year (2011).
That machine looks bad ass. Where did you guys get that thing? Do you mind if I post your e-mail and that video on my site?
Thanks,
Dave Durell, MS, CCS, PTA
And this was his reply:
Hi Dave,
I have teamed up with Randy Rindfleisch, the machine inventor, to bring this line of equipment to market. The CZT-V (vertical axis machine) is ideal for the HIT practitioner that knows what he is doing; it is extremely versatile and brings the function of negative only, hyper reps, and even double negatives all a possibilities.
Yes, you are more than welcome to post any of our videos and what emails you want to your site.
Keep up the good work Dave.
Take care
Mark Alexander
President – Efficient Exercise
CEO – CZT Fitness System
Now you and I have both seen the future of exercise–and it is good.
You’re going to the gym regularly, busting your ass performing high intensity workouts. You’re sooooo motivated that you’re ready to rip the weights apart with your bare hands. You want to get bigger and stronger so bad you can taste it.
Only one problem–you’re not making any progress. You look and lift the same as you did 6 months ago.
Why is that?
Well, there is one legitimate reason-you’ve done everything right for a few years, and you have now reached the limit of your genetic potential for building muscle beyond normal levels. You’ve reached you’re pinnacle. You can’t get any better, no matter what you do, and you are now lifting just to maintain what you have.
If that’s the case, you have no reason to be dissatisfied, because you look, feel and function fantastically.
But if that’s not the case (and I have met very few people who believe that they have reached that point), then there’s a reason.
Just like there’s a reason for everything in the Universe, based on the Law of Causality, a.k.a. the Law of Cause and Effect, there’s a reason for your lack of satisfying progress, and the number of possibilities are not infinite.
In fact, we can pretty much boil it down to one of 5 things.
The Top 5 Reasons for Lack of Training Progress:
1. Intensity is too low.
Intensity is the stimulus that triggers muscle growth and increased strength. Intensity means the percentage of momentary effort being exerted. If the intensity of each set is insufficient, increases in muscular size and strength will not be stimulated. Since nobody is too sure what the least amount of intensity required really is, and because of the difficulty in measuring intensity, the best way to insure you have passed over every possible growth threshold is to exert 100% intensity-that is, train to failure on every set (excluding warmups).
2. Duration is too high.
Intensity and duration are inversely proportional-that is, the higher the intensity is, the lower the duration of the workout must be, whether you want it to be or not. Just as nobody on earth can sprint all-out for a mile, nobody on earth can lift weights with 100% intensity for long periods of time.
If you are training to failure on every work set, take a careful look at your workout duration. Is there too much overlap present in your routine? Are you training the same muscle groups repeatedly with different movements unnecessarily? Can you eliminate anything?
Remember, the more you do, the harder it is for your body to recover and overcompensate. Instead of asking yourself “how much exercise can I tolerate?”, ask yourself instead “how little exercise do I require”?
3. Frequency is too high.
If your workouts are intense enough and brief enough, the next step is to make sure you are leaving enough time in-between workouts to allow for both recovery and overcompensation.
When you get finished with a high intensity workout, you don’t feel the same as you did before you started. You feel exhausted-something was “used up”. Think of it as digging a hole in your recovery ability.
The first thing you have to do is fill in that hole. Once things are back to their pre-workout levels-the hole is filled in-then, and only then, can you over-compensate and build some new muscle on top.
All of this takes time. If you don’t allow sufficient time in between workouts, you short-circuit this process.
How much time you need between workouts is an individual thing. I would say that 2-3 days between workouts, which equates to working out about twice a week, is an absolute minimum of days between workouts. If the intensity and duration are right, and you’re still not making progress, add an extra rest day between workouts until progress is apparent.
4. Not Enough Sleep.
Your body’s preferred time to rebuild and grow is while you are sleeping. That’s why babies and teenagers sleep a lot-because those are the times in people’s lives when they are going through heavy growth periods. If your training is intense enough, brief enough, and infrequent enough, maybe you just need and extra hour or two of sleep every day.
5. Insufficient Nutrition.
Food provides the building materials needed for new muscle tissue, and for the energy required to perform high intensity workouts. Make sure you are consuming a well-balanced diet with sufficient calories for your daily maintenance needs, plus a little extra to provide for increased muscle tissue.
Properly balancing these 5 factors is what makes training challenging, but it’s not as complicated as a lot of people make it out to be. If you think in terms of principles first, then figure out the specifics, it will all come together for you.
So remember the 5 principles of getting bigger and stronger:
And that’s 50% off for the ENTIRE 6-component system:
Component #1: The Training Manual–explains the entire system in detail, including fully illustrated exercise descriptions and printable workout cards.
Component #2: Downloadable MP3 Audio–go over every detail of the High Intensity Muscle Building program and training philosophy with your headphones or in your car.
Component #3: Nutrition Guide–helps you cut through all the hype, misinformation, and false claims about nutrition, and provides you with the basic facts you need to know and apply to get the most out of your High Intensity Muscle Building program.
Component #4: Unlimited Access to the “Video Vault”–Live-action videos to teach and inspire you, and take all the guesswork out of how to perform the workouts correctly (very hard to do from pictures alone).
Component #5: 12 months of the High Intensity Nation E-Newsletter–Stay motivated, entertained, and educated with up-to-date info on muscle building and strength training, delivered right to your e-mail in-box every month.
Component #6: 8-Week E-mail Coaching Program–Now you can have me as your personal coach, right by your side, no matter where you live-helping you every step of the way on your muscle building journey. You will get my private “coaching clients only” e-mail address to e-mail me as often as needed during your first 8 weeks on the program.
WHEW!
That’s a lot of stuff…and it’s ALL YOURS when you try my entire system for 50% off.
Go here and claim your copy before they’re all gone!
Thanks again and Happy Holidays,
Dave Durell, MS, CCS, PTA
P.S.-Don’t forget, the High Intensity Muscle Building System comes with a 60-day money back guarantee, so it’s risk-free-really kind of makes it a no brainer.
Our High Intensity Interview this month features the youngest Mr. America ever, Casey Viator.
In case you didn’t know, Casey Viator was one of the greatest bodybuilders in history, and a guy many people associate with High Intensity Training. In 1971 he won the Teenage Mr. America, Jr. Mr. America, and Mr. America, all at the age of 19, becoming the youngest person ever to do that.
He went on to a very successful pro career, winning 3 IFBB Grand Prix Championships, and placing 3rd in the ultimate pro contest, the Mr. Olympia.
Check out Casey in the Mr. Olympia contest!
Of course, in High Intensity Training circles, Casey is also known for being one of the first, and most successful, students of Arthur Jones.
I have known Casey for about 7 years now; we trained at the same gyms for a long time, and we’re actually neighbors. I can say from my own first hand experience that Casey is a great guy, a freakin’ gold mine of training knowledge and experience, still huge, and has the funniest Arthur Jones stories ever.
Casey does not do audio interviews, but was gracious enough to take time away from his extremely busy on-line training business (more info at the end of the interview) to answer my interview questions.
So enjoy this rare treat–an authentic, no-holds-barred interview with bodybuilding legend Casey Viator.
Q- How did you become interested in training, and when did you start?
A- I started when I was 13 years old. I learned most of my techniques from my uncle , who was into training and in his 30′s. The rest I learned form the muscle magazines. That`s all we had back then.
Q- How did you train when you first started, and what kind of results did you get?
A- Mostly volume with lots of intensity. I trained around 16 sets per body part and lots of running and biking.
My results were instant, and I was competing and winning at the age of 15. I was 175 pounds at 15 years old, and my protein intake was very high, around 200 grams of fresh protein a day. Lots of milk and milk products.
Q-How did you first get interested in High Intensity Training (H.I.T.)?
A- I feel I was doing HIT before I was introduced to Arthur Jones and Nautilus. I was training with high intensity with lots of volume, which makes it twice as hard. I knew I was over-training, but winning contest was first priority at that time in my life. I made a bunch of training mistakes in the beginning of my training, but corrected them by the age of 19.
Q-What was it like being trained by Arthur Jones?
A- Arthur was a great influence , as far as training goes. He showed me that I was training with way too many sets, so I toned my sets down. I was stubborn back then, and agreed that if doing less sets would help me gain muscle, I would stay with HIT. If I did’nt make gains on less sets, highly intense sets, I would go back to my original training style. I was wrong and Artur`s ideas on HIT helped me gain tremendously. And without injuries . That`s about the time I started working with Nautilus and Arthur was there for every workout, 1 year before the 1971 AAU Mr. America.
Q-I understand you were friends with Mike Mentzer-what was your relationship like, and what are your memories of Mike?
A- Mike and I were training partners for awhile. He was a great motivator and Ray Mentzer was also. We pushed very hard and usually drew a crowd when we trained at Golds in Santa Monica. I saw Mike eat a whole stick of butter at supper one night (cold), he said he liked it. I told him to at least put some bread on that butter. He was a funny guy.
Q-Do you still workout today, and if so, what changes, if any, have you made in your training program?
A- I still train hard, 3 days a week. I’ve toned down my intensity and weight poundages. I try to practice good form and work on a pump, along with plenty of cardio work.
Q-During your competitive bodybuilding career, how did you motivate yourself for your workouts?
A- I would say to myself, (My competitors are training and dieting really hard.) I will not let them beat me. And I would switch into high gear and get all my prep work done.
Q- What kinds of psychological/mental changes and/or benefits have taken place as a result of your training?
A- I`ve learned to listen to my body, like if an exercise hurts try another combination. Same with diet, before you put something in your mouth ask: Will this help my progress or hurt my progress.
Q-What’s the funniest thing that’s happened to you in the gym?
A- I was getting ready for a Mr. Olympia. And I was so hungry I ate a whole gallon of strawberry ice cream before training. 15 minutes into the workout, I got sick and ran outside and puked my brains out. The owner of the gym commented that I was fertilizing the plants outside, which brought the whole gym into laughter. Plus ,I did`nt need the extra calories, so I was happy I did puke. We had great times back then.
Q-What types of programs do you have available if someone wanted to get more training advice from you, and how can people get more
information on your programs?
A- I provide both HIT and solid volume training schedules . That fit your body style and your training level. All my programs are hand made for each of my clients to reach their goals. They can contact me at cviator@mindspring.com or go to my website, www.caseyviator.com and click on the personal training section for more information.
Q-Do you have any parting comments for the readers?
A- Keep on pumping, and make sensible training a constant part of your life.
World’s Hardest Exercises
70 “FUN” ways to increase the intensity of any workout
by Jim Kielbaso, MS, CSCS
Jim Kielbaso’s opening sentence sets the tone right away in his new e-book, World’s Hardest Exercises: “Welcome to the world of incredibly difficult (almost stupid) training”.
If you are the sensitive type, dislike challenges, or prefer avoiding hard work, this book is not for you.
This is also not a classic, 1-set-to-failure, high intensity training book. If you are seeking “Heavy Duty Part III”, you will not find it here.
But if you are truly a citizen of the High Intensity Nation, and embrace the spirit of the High Intensity lifestyle, this book will be a welcome addition to your training library.
This is a training manual Arthur Jones himself would be proud of–because it involves, as he used to say, exactly what you need to get results: “outright hard work”.
Do you believe:
That after a leg workout, you should feel like you just climbed the Empire State
Building with your car tied to your back?
Or that if you have never vomited from doing one set of barbell curls, you don’t know the meaning of hard work?
Arthur Jones did. And so does Jim Kielbaso.
And that’s what you get in World’s Hardest Exercises: dozens of specific protocols designed to stimulate your muscles and test your strength of will.
After a brief introduction, Jim gets right into the meat of the book, offering a collection of brutally hard activities that issue the ultimate smackdown to your body, mind and will.
Not all of the offerings are weight training exercises. Jim has included some bodyweight movements, running activities, and some very creative stuff using unconventional equipment, such as sandbags, floor mats, barbell plates, household items, and other human beings.
Some emphasize strength, some will target your stamina; but I promise you everything in the book will challenge you, and make you mentally tougher.
There is something for everybody here, but of course not every single exercise in the book will not appeal to every single reader.
This is a buffet line of super-hard workout movements-you pick and choose which way you want to crush yourself, and you can change your mind and pick something different every time you go.
Jim recommends you do not do all the exercises at once, or do the same one every workout. You can create a whole High Intensity workout from these exercises, or add them as “finishers” to any workout, to crank up the intensity of any workout to a new level.
To summarize, this is not a book on training theory, and is not training philosophy specific. It just gives you a lot of ways to add variety, intensity, and a great challenge to whatever workout program you might be currently using. I highly recommend it.
Recently I decided to put Jim’s techniques to the test, and created a High Intensity style metabolic workout by selecting a few exercises from the manual.
Since the workout would involve higher reps and shorter (or no) rest periods between sets, I adjusted my weights accordingly from what I usually use in my High Intensity Muscle Building workouts.
I expected, and welcomed, a challenging workout; and that is exactly what I got, but it was waaaaay more brutal than I anticipated! It quickly became apparent that I was in for some manhood-testing muscular devastation. I was still feeling the effects, and walking funny, days later.
Check out this video me getting crushed with a “World’s Hardest Exercise” workout:
P.S.–As of the time I’m writing this, Jim is currently including some really cool FREE bonuses with World’s Hardest Exercises, including his “Manual Resistance Training Start-Up Guide”, 30 days of complete access to his members-only website, and a bunch of sample workouts. I have no idea how long these bonuses will be available.
P.P.S.–Worlds Hardest Exercises also comes with a 60 day, no questions asked, money-back guarantee, so if it wasn’t challenging enough for you, you can get your money back. But if you do the exercises right, I seriously doubt that will happen.
Last June my wife Patty and I took a mini-vacation to Vero Beach, an oceanfront town on the east coast of Florida.
We stayed at a beautiful oceanfront hotel called Costa D’ Este, which is owned by Gloria Estefan, the singer. (It pays to be married to a travel agent!)
We enjoyed a long weekend of relaxation–no phone calls, no computer, no work, no cats, no house chores–nothing even remotely strenuous, mentally or physically. Lots of beach, pool, dining, and sleep.
Believe me, it was exactly what we needed mentally.
And come to find out, physically as well.
As we were there, I observed some interesting things happening to my physical appearance. Although we were not even thinking about training, much less doing any, I noticed my muscles appearing fuller and larger, while at the same time I was appearing leaner. All this despite the fact that I was eating–and definitely drinking–whatever I wanted, and as much as I wanted.
As I pondered the reasons for these positive changes in my appearance, it occurred to me that the relaxing lifestyle we were leading that weekend was the cause. There was no question in my mind that I was “under-rested” before we left, which was the reason we planned the trip in the first place.
I thought back to other examples of increased recovery positively effecting physical appearance and performance I had heard about in the past.
I remembered reading something by Ellington Darden (1) about Arthur Jones claiming he could increase the size of someone’s arms by 1/2 inch from one workout. Apparently Jones had bodybuilders flying in from all over the country to take him up on this challenge.
Jones’ secret was exactly what I experienced in Vero Beach. He would have the chronically overtrained bodybuilder completely rest at a Daytona Beach hotel for 3 days, then on the fourth day put them through a murderous arm workout, then another night at the motel. The next day, the guy’s arms would be 1/2 inch bigger, mainly because of all the rest.
I also recalled reading a chapter containing a reprinted article called “After Working The Rest Is Easy”, on the beneficial effect of extended periods of rest on competitive runners, in Dan Riley’s old book “Strength Training By The Experts” (2).
The article described how several distance runners had won major championships after being seriously ill or injured, and being forced to take several weeks off from training. The authors noted: “If the body is not allowed to complete the rebuilding phase of training for lack of time (rest) or materials (nutrition), then the destruction will eventually exceed the body’s ability to repair itself. Conditioning will proceed at a slower rate or not at all. In extreme cases, conditioning can actually deteriorate.”
And in “Heavy Duty II: Mind and Body” (3), Mike Mentzer reminds us: “The workout, understand, doesn’t produce muscle growth, but merely serves to stimulate the body’s growth mechanism into motion. It is the body that produces the growth, but only if left undisturbed during a sufficient rest period.”
Bottom line: Don’t underestimate the value of recovery to your training success. Take a little extra time once in a while to let your body, and your mind, fully recover from the stress of training, and life in general. Some extra rest and relaxation will not hinder your training efforts; on the contrary, it is one of the best things you can do to enhance them.
And never forget that you’re doing all this training to improve the quality of your life, not let it enslave you. Go live a little; your body will thank you for it.
This month we are very priviledged to have with us the owner of Intelligent Exercise in Shreveport, LA–none other than “The Sickness” himself, Mr. Doug Holland.
Doug deadlifting like 2 or 3 times his bodyweight a few weeks ago. By the way, he’s like 50 years old.
Doug has been a High Intensity Training enthusiast and private training facility owner for many years. He has also had a long and successful career as a champion Powerlifter.
Doug back in the day squatting over 3 1/2 times his bodyweight. Try that your next workout and see how you do.
Doug has already forgotten more about productive exercise than most of us will ever figure out, and he graciously shares some of that knowledge with us on this interview.
In addition to being highly knowledgable and experienced in the field of exercise, I hereby pronounce Doug the coolest guy I have ever interviewed for High Intensity Nation.
Doug chillin’ after a hard workout with his boy Mr. Strong and a refreshing post-workout beverage. Only really cool guys stand on tables after their workout.
Grab a note pad and a beverage of your own, get comfy and listen in as Doug breaks down for us:
How he got interested in training as a youngster
How hitchhiking to Austin, TX led to a big breakthrough in his training career
His “defining moment” which inspired him to open his facility
How much he could deadlift as a 123 pound teenager (you’ll pass out when you hear this)
How he blended High Intensity Training into his Powerlifting program (this is awesome stuff-very educational!)
His opinion of Powerlifting today and the “equipment” they use
His early influences that shaped his training beliefs
His views on nutrition, and his unusual relationship with french fries
How he incorporates negative training into his workouts (very cool)
How he got the nickname “The Sickness”, and what he had to do to get it
And much, much more!
PLUS–at the end of the interview, Doug provides his contact information for those hungry to learn more from him!
To hear the Doug Holland interview, just click on the play arrow (the little triangle on the left) below:
If you enjoyed the Dough Holland interview, please leave a comment below. Doug loves comments.
What the heck, it’s football season–let’s do a bonus interview with one of the best football strength and conditioning coaches in the business: Ron McKeefery from the University of South Florida.
Listen in on this interview with Ron and find out:
What he thought he would be when he grew up, and how he ended up as a strength coach
How valet parking led him to become a trainer
Who his influences and teachers were in the strength and conditioning field
Why the weight room is like something you do in church
How he deals with the NCAA “20 hour rule”
What should be getting accomplished in a properly structured strength and conditioning program
The 3 critical variables in a strength training program
The difference between a principle-based program and a philosophy-based program
What “the spice” is in his training program
The craziest thing that’s happened in his weight roo (this was REALLY crazy-I was sorry I asked the question)
***The new online “basic training” program he has developed for guys who want to become strength and conditioning coaches*** (No other program like it in the industry! You heard it here first folks)
And much, much more!
To hear the Ron McKeefery interview, just click on the play arrow (the little triangle on the left) below:
In the interest of training effectively-that is, engaging in a training program that will provide the specific results you desire-you need to first establish two things:
1. What specifically are my desired results?
2. What specifically must I do in my training to achieve these results?
Obviously, this is fundamental. If you don’t get these two things figured out, you risk wasting your time in the gym.
Stated even more fundamentally: “You get what you train for.”
The problem is, many people are trying to train for one thing, but in reality they are training for something else. The routine they are using is not specifically applicable to their training goal.
I emphasize the word specifically because, for example, a goal like “getting in shape” is not specific enough. What do you mean by that? Do you mean more muscular size and strength? Increased metabolic conditioning? Injury rehabilitation and/or prevention? More cardiovascular endurance? These are all very diiferent goals which will necessitate different training programs.
So, if you don’t know specifically what you want to achieve with your training, and you don’t know the specific training methods which will stimulate that particular physiological response, your training program will probably not be as effective and time-efficient as it should be.
Since this is the High Intensity Nation, you probably have an interest in increasing your muscular size and strength, so let’s
examine that one to illustrate specificity in training.
A review of High Intensity Training principles reveals that in order to stimulate an increase in muscle growth and strength, training must be very high in intensity and low in duration and frequency.
Yet walk into any gym in the world, and you will see guys trying to get bigger and stronger who are doing 12-20 sets per body part, training 2 hours a day, 6 days a week. That type of program is low in intensity and high in duration and frequency-the opposite of what is required to achieve their stated goal. These guys are trying to build muscle and increase strength on an endurance program. That’s as bad as trying to train for a marathon by doing a power lifting program.
How many of us have misguidedly trained like that-diligently,slavishly, for weeks, months or even years-because that’s what we saw somebody else doing, and we didn’t understand the principles of actual exercise science.
Here’s how the principles of intensity, duration and frequency can be manipulated to achieve a specific training result:
-Increased muscular size and strength-train specifically for strength. As Mike Mentzer used to say, “you can’t get bigger by getting weaker”.
Maximum intensity
Very brief
Infrequent
-Metabolic Conditioning-the ability to sustain a high level of exertion continuously for an extended period of time.
High Intensity (but not maximum)
Brief, but higher duration relative to size and strength training
Infrequent
-Injury Prevention/Rehab-training at-risk areas based on your sport or occupation, or recovering from a previous injury.
Prioritize-perform exercise(s) first, or at strategic points in your routine to emphasize concentration and good form
Sport/situation specific-i.e. neck training for contact sports, ankle training for basketball, rotator cuff exercises for throwing sports, etc.
Lower intensity of effort initially, build up gradually
-Endurance only-mainly for endurance athletes, not necessary for general fitness.
Low intensity
High duration
Higher frequency due to lower intensity, monitor for adequate recovery.
Of course your level of progress is the ultimate indicator of whether or not your training program is correct for the results you desire. If you want increased strength, and you are not getting stronger on a very regular basis, something is very wrong with your program. You need to change at least one of the three workout variables-intensity, duration or frequency-to correct the problem.
Likewise for a lack of consistent, regular progress on an endurance or rehab program. There’s a reason for everything in this world, including lack of training progress; and the number of possible reasons is not infinite. The only way you will know if there’s a problem or not is by accurate record keeping.
Make sure you learn proper theory and methods from the experience of others by reading, listening to and studying the work of reliable sources to guide you in your training efforts-specifically, High Intensity Nation is a great place to start!
This month our special guest is veteran NFL Strength and Conditioning Coach Mark Asanovich.
Every once in a while, in any field of endeavor, somebody comes along who just says things a little bit better than everybody else.
Mark Asanovich is one of those guys.
Mark has been a successful strength coach at every level–high school, college, and pro–all the while maintaining an unwavering commitment to High Intensity Training. Not that easy to do when you’re hired and fired by football coaches who don’t know a pullover machine from a kettlebell.
Strength Training 101: this is a pullover machine
This is a kettlebell
Listen in on the conversation as Mark breaks down, in his special style:
How being the “Try Hard” guy led him to a 30-year coaching career
The High Intensity All-Star list of people who have influenced him
The cross-country Odyssey he went on when he got started as a strength coach (this is crazy)
The difference between physiology and philosophy-and why you need to understand both
The 4 P’s of strength training
The correlation between the strength training program and winning football
The fallacy of presumption (vs. principle)
The right kind of testing for athletes
What “closed loop” and “open loop” mean, and what they have to do with strength training
The critical importance of understanding motor learning, physiology and physics
The #1 exercise every football player should do
Why there is controversy in the strength training field
The 3 critical principles of strength training
The difference between training for football and training for the non-athlete (surprising!)
How to figure out the right amount of training for yourself
Why he could never be a Sumo Wrestling strength coach
And much, much more!
To hear the Mark Asanovich interview, just click on the play arrow (the little triangle on the left) below:
P.S.–Mark is currently the Strength Coach for the Hartford Colonials of the United Football League, and took time out of his busy in-season schedule to do this interview. Please show your appreciation by leaving a comment below and let Mark know what you thought of the interview. Thanks!
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